Posted February 25, 2014

Arizona concerned it may lose Super Bowl XLIX if anti-gay bill becomes law

NFL
University of Phoenix Stadium is home to the Arizona Cardinals. (Jonathan Ferrey/Getty Images)

University of Phoenix Stadium is home to the Arizona Cardinals. (Jonathan Ferrey/Getty Images)

The Arizona Super Bowl Host Committee is speaking out against SB 1062, a controversial bill passed by the state’s legislature last week that would allow businesses to deny service to gay and lesbian patrons on the basis of religious beliefs, according to USA Today‘s Laurie Merrill and Peter Corbett.

The committee has joined a growing chorus in the state asking Gov. Jan Brewer to veto the bill, which the committee says could cause the NFL to move the 2015 Super Bowl to a different site and harm the state economically.

“On that matter we have heard loud and clear from our various stakeholders that adoption of this legislation would not only run contrary to that goal but deal a significant blow to the state’s economic growth potential. We do not support this legislation,” the committee said.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told USA Today that the league is keeping an eye on the legislation, but declined to say what action it might take should the bill become law.

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“Our policies emphasize tolerance and inclusiveness and prohibit discrimination based on age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation or any other improper standard,” said NFL spokesman Greg Aiello. “We are following the issue in Arizona and will continue to do so should the bill be signed into law, but will decline further comment at this time.”

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The NFL has moved its championship game from Arizona once before, when Super Bowl XXVII was played in Pasadena, California, after Arizona voted in 1990 not to recognize Martin Luther King Day. The state voted to institute the holiday two years later and has since hosted the game in 1996 and 2008.


131 comments
Fifilo
Fifilo

Can we give this dump back to Mexico?

John64
John64

Nine million children die every year before they reach the age of five. That's 24,000 children a day, 1,000 per hour, 17 or so per minute.  That means by the time I finish this post, some few children will have died in terror and agony.

But according to Christians, this is all part of God's plan.

Any god who would let children by the millions suffer and die this way, either can do nothing to help them or doesn't care to.

He is therefore either impotent or evil. 

And worse than that, many of these people will be going to hell simply because they're praying to the wrong god. Think about it for a minute: Through no fault of their own, they were born into the "wrong" culture, where they received the "wrong" theology, and they miss the revelation. 

There are 1.2 billion people in India. Most of them are Hindus, most of them polytheists. In the Christian universe, no matter how good these people are, they are doomed.  You'll be tortured in hell for eternity.  Is there the slightest evidence for this? No. It just says so in Mark:9 and Matthew:13 and Revelation:14.  

So God created the cultural isolation of the Hindus, he engineered the circumstance of their deaths in their ignorance of Revelation, and then he created the penalty for this ignorance. Which is an eternity of torment in fire. 

BUT... on the other hand, your run-of-the-mill serial killer in America, who spent his life raping, torturing and killing children, need only come to God and/or Jesus on death row, repent, and he gets to spend an eternity in heaven after death.

That is a lack of moral accountability on a biblical scale.

rkcla08
rkcla08

regardless of whether the law is passed, arizona shouldn't be awarded the most famous business-friendly event in the usa.  the damage was already done through their anti-business legislation by allowing such a bill to even reach the governor.

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

Homosexuals like to call people who oppose them all kinds of names.  If a homosexual said, "I don't provide goods or services to right-wing Bible thumping bigot haters," the target would shrug and find someone else.

But homosexuals want to FORCE people to service them.

In other words, homosexuals must be allowed to force people to give them services for ceremonies/events that the people object to on moral grounds. 

Sounds like a one-way street to me.

Let's make another law:  Muslim butchers must sell pork to whoever wants it.  I can hear the outrage now.  But it's the same thing.

You gay-pushers are so vicious and nasty because you know it's wrong, and you think screaming as loud as you can will drown out your conscience.  Wrong.

ecp_unix
ecp_unix

@John64  First of all, children under the age of reasoning, that is that have no real concept or understanding of right or wrong, or that would not understand the concept of salvation and damnation, are innocent in God's eyes. Those children are in heaven. 


As for others that have never heard the Gospel message, Romans 1 19:20 says, "The truth about God is known to them instinctively. God has put this knowledge in their hearts. From the time the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God" 


Everyone innately knows there is a God. It is seen everyday in His creation and  as we are made in His image, it is ingrained in our DNA. As I said in a message before, the only unforgivable sin is rejecting Him. You for instance obviously know that the only way to God is through Jesus, so if you reject that, you are without excuse. If someone has never been offered the Gospel message, yet they truly seek God, He will make the way for their salvation. I cannot say that a person in the bushes of Australia has not met God. He's God. Just because they haven't met Billy graham doesn't mean that God hasn't spoken to them. He IS a loving God. He doesn't want to see any perish. He doesn't expect you to answer for something you haven't had a chance to learn. So, He will get the message to them HIS way. 

There will be no excuse for anyone when they meet Him. I don't care how good you are, you aren't good enough. The expectation is perfection. God can't look at sin at all. None of us is perfect. That is why He sent his only begotten Son as a sacrifice for you and I. He died for the man that nailed His hand to the cross. He IS perfect. So if you have excepted Him as Lord and Savior, when God looks at you, He see's Jesus. And that covers ANY sin, even suicide. All sins past present and future. It doesn't mean that you have a licences to sin; if that is your attitude then you haven't truly given Him your life; or that you don't have to pay the consequences of your sins; but it does mean that you are forgiven for your sin and that you don't have to pay the ultimate price for your sin. That is spiritual death. Eternity apart from God. Wanting to die, but not being able to. Eternal torture and agony. And forever means forever. This is why I stand by and preach and teach God's word. I don't want ANYONE to suffer than fate. I would rather you hate me and something I say get's through to you and you accept Christ, than for you to love me and spend eternity apart from Him. 


So call me what you have to. I'm a big boy, I can take it. Just know that I love you enough to tell you the truth. Love isn't excusing behavior and telling someone what they want to hear. Love is correcting behavior and telling them what they need to hear. You wouldn't tell your son that it's alright to steal, would you?


I am through here. I have said what I need to say. It's your prerogative to accept it or not. All I'm saying is that sin is sin. There was a time when I tried to justify mine also, and as I said, mine was no better than this one. It was sin. But I have given my life to the one that saved it and repented of my mess. and because I have, I will spend eternity with Him. I want the same thing for you. 

John64
John64

And please notice the double standard that certain people use to exonerate God from all of this evil.  We're told that God is loving and kind and just, but when faced with the evidence that God is clearly cruel and unjust, because he visits suffering on innocent people of a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath, we're told that God is "mysterious".  


If something good happens to a Christian, if he feels some bliss while praying, or he sees some positive change in his life, we're told that God is good, But when children by the tens of thousands are torn from their parents' arms and horribly drowned (Asian Tsunami in 2004 for example), then we're told that God is "mysterious".  This is how you play tennis without the net.

rkcla08
rkcla08

@Richard--Ramirez  

more like poisonous...similar to drano or bleach, there is usefulness but damaging if consumed improperly.  those who oppose this so vehemently are damaged to the core in their religious poison as they fail to live by the words; hate the sin, love the sinner.

Whatever
Whatever

@rkcla08  You're ridiculous. How many stupid bills have your state's representatives passed that were not signed into law by your state's governor? Kansas has passed or tried to pass several laws that are explicitly anti-gay. Arizona's bill is NOT anti-gay; it give a business owner the right to refuse to service any person due to the business owner's religious beliefs and not be sued for it.

Not that this bill is good; it's horrible. It is basically a blanket authorization to discriminate against any person, any group, for any reason so long as you claim it was against your religious beliefs. Gov. Brewer needs to veto it NOW, and not wait until Friday or Saturday to do so.

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@rkcla08  

So you believe that the NFL should be able to blackmail a state into forcing people to compromise their Christian religious beliefs.

The forces of evil are proud of you.

John64
John64

@MidwestGolfFan Stop being ignorant.  You're throwing out sweeping generalities about homosexuals.  Homosexuals like to call people who oppose them all kinds of names? Really? ALL homosexuals do? Homosexuals want to FORCE people to service them? Really? ALL homosexuals do?   

All they want is to be treated like any other law-abiding American citizen. That's it.  What does it matter to YOU if someone you don't know is a homosexual? How does that affect YOUR LIFE exactly? 

Orange Crush
Orange Crush

@MidwestGolfFan  A business cannot be made to sell goods they do not wish to sell. What a silly thought process comparing the two. 

John64
John64

@ecp_unix   "repented of my mess".  So what, your life was a mess and then you found Jesus? Wonderful. I'm happy for you both.  Me, my life has been great and continues to be great, and I've never worshiped any gods, prayed to any gods or gave of myself to any gods in any way whatsoever for even one second of my entire life. If that's a sin to you, well then that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. 

You just keep on thanking Jesus for giving you all that you have while millions upon millions of innocent children are dying horribly around the world.  Because God loves YOU... don'cha know? 

John64
John64

@ecp_unix  Your reply concerning children is irrelevant to my point.  

There are 1.2 billion people in India. Most of them are Hindus, most of them polytheists. In the Christian universe, no matter how good these people are, they are doomed.  You'll be tortured in hell for eternity.  Is there the slightest evidence for this? No. It just says so in Mark:9 and Matthew:13 and Revelation:14.  

So God created the cultural isolation of the Hindus, he engineered the circumstance of their deaths in their ignorance of Revelation, and then he created the penalty for this ignorance. Which is an eternity of torment in fire. 

BUT... on the other hand, your run-of-the-mill serial killer in America, who spent his life raping, torturing and killing children, need only come to God and/or Jesus on death row, repent, and he gets to spend an eternity in heaven after death.  That is unbelievably ludicrous and laughable in the extreme.

John64
John64

It is not only tiresome when otherwise intelligent people speak and/or think this way, it is morally reprehensible.  This kind of faith is really the perfection of narcissism.  "God loves ME. Don't you know? He cured me of my illness. He makes me feel so good while I'm singing in church. And just when we had given up hope, He found a banker who was willing to reduce my mother's mortgage."


Given all that this so-called god of yours does not accomplish in the lives of others, given the misery that is being imposed on some helpless child at this very instant, this kind of faith is obscene. To think in this way is to fail to reason honestly, or to care sufficiently, about the suffering of other human beings.

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@rkcla08 @Richard--Ramirez 

The people who are opposed to this don't speak with the kind of poisonous (your word), hate-filled invective that you do.  

We have beliefs.  We are clear about them, and explain why we object to certain things.  We present facts and arguments.

You self-styled representatives of tolerance and compassion respond with vicious insults and ugly accusations.  You do not engage in factual argument.

Why?  Because you can't.  You know our ideas are correct, and you hate it, because it conflicts with how YOU think things should be.  You want to shut us up because the truth bursts your secular-utopian bubble.

rkcla08
rkcla08

@MidwestGolfFan

the nfl is not in the business of religious belief concern.  it is about promoting a game that brings value to its fans and advertisers.  when that value is sullied through anti-business legislation it detracts from their core principal.  no blackmail.  just business sense.  in reply to you as well, "whatever."

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@John64 @MidwestGolfFan 

Having lived in an area with a large concentration of homosexuals, I have been exposed to them frequently.  They are "loud and proud," and they are pathetically vicious.

ecp_unix
ecp_unix

@Orange Crush @MidwestGolfFan  Why would a Muslim butcher not sell pork? Because of his religious views. Same reason a Christian preacher would not marry  gay couple. So in essence the Christian preacher cannot be made to sell goods that he does not wish to sell. I think that it is a VERY apt comparison. 

John64
John64

@MidwestGolfFan  "Long screeds like yours indicate someone not confident in his beliefs."

Wow, I wasn't aware that shorter comments were met with greater credibility.  Huh, who knew? 

John64
John64

@MidwestGolfFan  "gods who interfere with humanity often do so arbitrarily, interfering with free will"

Are you speaking from your experience with other gods? 

"I do know that the men who did these things, and their enablers, are not men of God"

And are you speaking on behalf of all men throughout human history who have ever caused evil upon others? Wow, nice extremely broad generality there. 

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@Richard--Ramirez @MidwestGolfFan@John64 

More insults.  

What's God supposed to do, send lightning-bolts down?  You seem to want God to be Zeus; it's a tempting kind of image, but gods who interfere with humanity often do so arbitrarily, interfering with free will.

I don't know why God allows evil.  I do know that the men who did these things, and their enablers, are not men of God, regardless how high-ranking or well-thought-of.   And they will answer when they stand before Him.

John64
John64

@MidwestGolfFan  Why do you think I'm so full of hate? What part of my comments leads you to that conclusion?  We are told that God is good and just and kind.  That isn't just something I made up out of thin air.

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@John64  

Why are you so full of hate?

What is it you fear?

Long screeds like yours indicate someone not confident in his beliefs.

God is not "kind."  That is psycho-babble.  God is many things:  all-just, all-good, omnipotent -- but not a "Nice Guy." He's a parent, not a best buddy.

And He is not flawed with wickedness like so many abusive human "parents" who don't deserve the name.

John64
John64

@MidwestGolfFan  Not at all. I am simply full of logic and reason. But thanks for proving my points. 

John64
John64

And if God is good and loving and just and kind, and he wanted to guide us morally with a book... Why give us a book that supports slavery? Why give us a book that admonishes us to kill people for imaginary crimes like witchcraft?


We are being offered a psychopathic and psychotic moral attitude. It's psychotic because it's completely delusional. There's no reason to believe that we live in a universe ruled by an invisible deity. And it is psychopathic because this is a total detachment from reality, which so easily rationalizes the slaughter of children.  


Think about the Muslims who are blowing themselves up, convinced that they are agents of God's will. There is absolutely nothing that Christians can say against their behavior, in moral terms, apart from their own faith-based claims, they they are praying to the wrong god. If they had the "right" god, what they're doing would be good on divine command theory.

This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions what only lunatics could believe on their own. If you wake up tomorrow morning, thinking that saying a few Latin words over your pancakes is going to turn them into the body of Elvis Presley, you have lost your mind.  But if you think more or less the same thing about a cracker and the body of Jesus, then your just a Cathlolic.

Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice. It is a religion that celebrates a single human sacrifice as though it were effective. "God so loved the world that he gave his only son". John 3:16.  The idea is that Jesus suffered the crucifixion so that none need suffer Hell.  Except for those billions in India and billions like them throughout history.

 



MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@John64  

Dude...nobody's gonna read all that.

You are obviously angry and full of hate and bile.

The world is a wicked place.  Terrible things happen here, to individuals and nations, that are most certainly NOT "God's plan," but He allows it anyway.  Some say it is His refusal to interfere with free will; the victims often shout at Him:  "How could you allow this?"  

It is a mystery.  Many faithful people plan to demand answers from Him, should they be lucky enough to get the opportunity.

But what's the alternative?  Your nihilistic, rage-filled existence that sees only darkness?

rkcla08
rkcla08

@MidwestGolfFan  

you're the only one who threw vindictive hate into the comment here, as as well as throughout this whole discussion.  and yet, i'm sure you feel no shame. 

John64
John64

@MidwestGolfFan  I believe Hitler said similar things about Jewish people. Funny, he considered himself a Christian too. 

And if you think he didn't, check this out:

In a speech from April 12, 1922 and published in his book My New Order, Adolf Hitler explains his perspective on Jesus Christ:

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter.

In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross"
Your passionate hatred for those "pathetically vicious" homosexuals is what's really pathetic.

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@Richard--Ramirez @John64@MidwestGolfFan  

Wait a minute.  You think homosexuality is awesome.  But you're using it as a means to insult me? 

I consider the source, so this kind of baloney rolls right off me.  

You, on the other hand, need to re-examine your own so-called tolerance and open-mindedness. 


John64
John64

@ecp_unix  "use the bible in a perverse manner".  LOL... I only quoted from one of its very own passages that was apparently written by the hand of God himself, right? I didn't add to it, I didn't embellish on it in any way.  

Yes, we don't sacrifice animals or stone misbehaving children. We also don't throw rocks at the moon or burn witches or think the world is flat anymore either.

So yeah, how about we get with the 21st century and not hold on to 2nd-century beliefs.  

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@John64 @ecp_unix 

Give us references.  Tell us how many, how often, where, under what specific circumstances.

Bible-believers can spot an analogy. Christ stopped the people trying to stone the woman for adultery because they were obviously a lowlife mob, which tells you something about the practice and the people who put it into use. 

John64
John64

@ecp_unix  You doubt that many were stoned even then? Well, that's convenient for you isn't it? Never mind that it says so right there in your very own bible.  Sorry, you can't just cherry-pick God's words to fit your arguments. 

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@Whatever @MidwestGolfFan@Orange Crush@ecp_unix 

Homosexuals can get married by judges and JPs in Britain, too.  But they want church weddings.  They call it a civil right.

Don't you dare tell me "it can't happen."  That's the argument homosexuals used for "increased rights," saying they'd never want to get married -- pffft, what an absurd idea.

You might believe what you're saying, but if it becomes an issue, I'll bet you'll be right on that phoney-baloney human rights" bandwagon for gays to get married in church -- with a the figurative gun of the law to the clergyman's head, if necessary.

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@John64 @ecp_unix  

Straw man.

You secularists are always babbling that the Bible is nothing but symbolism, not a shred of reality, constantly insulting Christians for too-literal interpretation.  Then you quote something most Christians regard as analogy to tell us we're wicked and hypocritical.  

You can't have it both ways.

You're saying it was real and literal. 

So tell me:  how many times did this actually happen?  Which historian says so? Was it a regular practice?

ecp_unix
ecp_unix

@John64 @ecp_unix  You people need to stop trying to use the Bible in a perverse manner to prove your point. The laws in Deuteronomy were given to the people of Israel at that time for a specific purpose. It was for them and them only. Just the same as we don't sacrifice animals for our sins anymore, we don't have to stone children for their iniquities. As a matter of fact, I doubt that many were stoned even then. But the fact remains that disobedient children are sinful, and i don't condone that either! So what should I condone any other sin?

Orange Crush
Orange Crush

@ecp_unix @Orange Crush @MidwestGolfFan  Again businesses are free to sell the products they choose to sell, but the products they choose to sell should be available to all. That's great that you would choose to serve everybody and therefore you should be against this bill so people are all able to enjoy goods and services from a public business.

John64
John64

@ecp_unix   "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21"

So since you believe God's word, I can only assume you also believe that rebellious children who defy their parents should be stoned to death, as they are clearly evil.  Right?

ecp_unix
ecp_unix

@Orange Crush @MidwestGolfFan @ecp_unix  If I had a restaurant, anyone would be allowed to come in and enjoy themselves and would be treated the same as anyone else. God said nothing about allowing someone to eat. But He has clearly said that marriage is between one man and one woman. Again, you all can believe as you will. That is up to you. But don't hate on me because I believe Gods word.

ecp_unix
ecp_unix

@rkcla08 @MidwestGolfFan  Why was it invalid? The Muslim butcher does not sell pork because of his religious belief. So by your standard, he has discriminated against the pork eating community.

rkcla08
rkcla08

@MidwestGolfFan

the analogy was ridiculed because it was an invalid argument.  to not see that is simply a case of tunnel vision. 

Orange Crush
Orange Crush

@MidwestGolfFan @Orange Crush @ecp_unix  Just imagine what kind of world we would live in for a minute if we start allowing businesses to start deciding who they want to serve and why. You will start seeing signs on every window "Only _____ served here". Is that the progress you want to see in this world?

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@Orange Crush @ecp_unix@MidwestGolfFan  

We have evidence of tradesmen being forced to violate their religious beliefs.  You ridicule the Muslim butcher/pork analogy, then foam at the mouth when Christians want the same kind of rights.

In Britain, homosexuals are suing churches that refuse to marry them.  I have no doubt it'll go down the same road in this country.

Orange Crush
Orange Crush

@ecp_unix @Orange Crush @MidwestGolfFan  If you can give me evidence of a preacher being forced to marry a gay couple I will agree with you. If you bake cakes as a business you can't just pick and choose who you want to sell your cakes to.

MidwestGolfFan
MidwestGolfFan

@x72 @MidwestGolfFan 

Because YOU say so.  Not a shred of proof.  Just your own definition.

I wonder how you'd feel if the people refusing service were Muslims.  I'll bet you'd find it so confusing, you'd stay out of it.

No, you just hate Christians.  That's your right.  You'll answer for your hate someday.